Westfall introduced a panel consisting of Collier County Commissioner Donna Fiala, City Manager William Moss, City Council Chairwoman Terri DiSciullo, Marco Island Civic Association (MICA) President James Arnold, and MICA Executive Director Ruth McCann.

After Westfall introduced the topic of beach access and named Tigertail, South Beach and Residents' Beach as the three main beach areas with parking, the panel responded to questions from the audience.

What is the status of the beach access area beside the Marriott hotel?

DiSciullo: "The 15-foot easement acquired with the PUD can be activated within 10 years. City Council voted no to activate it during the construction of the condominium. The reconstruction of South Collier still creates a dangerous situation. We will have to wait another 14 months at least until construction is over.

"We have also received 50 to 70 form letters on this topic from San Marco residents in the last few months."

I don't understand the Association's role in this. It looks like a civil war. I think everyone should have access and we shouldn't create problems when we don't have one. We have good beach access, although it may not be "convenient" for everyone. On holidays, large amounts of people go through the property and tear it apart. We don't have enough protection now. Around the Marriott, people speed through there and someone could get hurt. It's ridiculous to create access without parking. Why spend time in this area when there are other problems?

DiSciullo: "When I was running for election, I tried to understand the problems people described to me. I was green, and I got a lot of conflicting information. No one was forthcoming with facts. It's a contentious issue. As an elected official, I needed to understand.

"Residents of the Sea Breeze, not just Jim Ciolino, said they were unable to walk through to the gulf once the high rises went up. Ciolino turned it into a legal issue, and it was my obligation to understand it. I went to the county meeting as a city representative. I wanted a legal opinion from the county attorney. Mr. (Glenn) Tucker pushed the city attorney for an interpretation with the county, and they agreed the city's stand was legal. It had been going on for three years."

More like 30 years.

DiSciullo: "It was only three for me. Now there's a permanent file in City Hall for anyone to be able to consult it without wasting time."

Years ago we had to finance beach renourishment, and we did. In this environment, it's more like civil war.

Westfall: "We're not the Calusa Indians, but we are people who care about what happens in our house. This gives condo owners a chance to hear what happened when they were away."

Arnold: "MICA has 23,000 members. It costs $100 per year to belong. We're the largest civic organization like this in Florida, and we average one million beach visitors a year. I'm in favor of beach access, and I'm in favor of access at the Marriott. People have to consider restrooms and parking - the county finally had to put in restrooms at the south end.

"In 1981-82 all attorneys and the attorney general said our beach access was perfectly legal. If Ciolino thinks he can work it out, let him take it and sue. He doesn't work it this way.

"When he came to us for a lifeguard job at Residents' Beach, that's when this started.

"We allow access for maintenance, EMS and emergency vehicles."

The legal issue should not be a question ­ it's about convenience and that's how it should be attacked for discussion. That's the reality.

Arnold: "I'm an attorney, and with a prescriptive easement you have to prove that for 20 years with the owner knowing and approving there was continuous access. There was never continuous use. It's almost impossible to prove there was. Courts hate these cases. It means taking your property and giving it away. It's adverse possession."

Moss: "You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true.

"We always get letters at city hall: 'Why did you let it happen?' It didn't happen, it never was any different."

Fiala: "I try to stay out of Marco Island business. But the county is concerned with Tigertail Beach. There are 350 parking spaces, and it's becoming a bird watching place. People who want to go to a 'beach' don't want to go there. For people with coolers, kids and chairs, it's a long walk to a beach. As the area fills in more, the Audubon people say it's one of the top 10 bird sanctuaries. I get calls from Marco Island people: 'Leave the birds alone.'

"There are only 70 parking spaces at South Beach. People now have to drive there to go to the beach, if there's a parking space.

"The Coastal Advisory Committee (CAC) makes recommendations to the Tourist Development Council where to spend beach dollars. Almost one-third comes from Marco Island. The money cannot be used to renourish private beaches: I'm worried about what would happen if there were no access. Just a walkway would be access enough for the state or the CAC.

"People from Naples would not likely come here to go to the beach. You should be making private agreements before anyone challenges you."

Moss: "Have any of the associations had dialogue about this? Sharing costs for a gate, pass and cleanup?"

What's the legal implication of allowing another condo to share your property?

Moss: "That's what insurance is for."

We'd be worried about getting sued - the legal issue is great.

Arnold: "When we allow the Kiwanis to use the property, we let them get their own insurance."

In your documents, it becomes a common element requiring 75 percent of the owners to agree.

Arnold: "The federal government should be more concerned. When we had the piping plover situation, they were ready to close all the beaches because they didn't know anyone lived here."

DiSciullo: "In the future, if they put a toll on the bridge, that will be out of our hands. If they look at the beaches and feel we really don't have access, that could become an issue. Perhaps if you worked it out among yourselves in the open, you could make some decisions about beach access."

There are two kinds of access: if you live on the beach, or if you need to get to it. Tigertail has a long parking lot and all of its facilities are on the wrong end. The only feasible way for the the city is to create pedestrian access between buildings.

Arnold: "With property values the way they are - MICA's property is worth $50 million. The city would have to condemn properties. You can't get an easement for $10,000. A 15-foot easement would be costly."

Moss: "We got an easement as part of a PUD. The city has no interest in condemning properties."

What is the county's plan for Tigertail so that the beach-goers and birders can use it?

Fiala: "Beach-goers are not eager to use it. A suggestion has been made about getting large-wheeled vehicles to transport people from the parking lot to the beach. Tigertail changes so rapidly that I don't think it would be feasible to do a boardwalk or a bridge ­ and I'm not in favor of that.

"Concessionaires are losing money because fewer people go there. Mother Nature is taking over. We cannot expand South Beach parking lot."

There's too much emphasis on birds and the environmentalists - they're taking too much area.

Fiala: "Birds can go elsewhere; what about people? The state also came in and cordoned off an area ­ 'Birds' beach.' Now you can't use the beach anyway."

We have to stand up to these people and fight them. There's a woman down there who won't let you put your foot down. We're getting more beach. Let's not let them take it away.

Moss: "If the association would discuss the matters together - no one has tried it."